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Iurus wrote:

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My rather unconventional (but hopefully even more fun to read) review of Luke Skywalkers and the Shadow of Mindor goes up at midnight tonight here!

As a reviewer, the first and only duty you have is to the reader.

I just finished this six page review. It took a while. More than three separate settings from start to finish. I could go on about how long it is (um, way too long), but I think that's pretty evident from anyone who clicks on a review and sees that it spans six pages. But I do have feedback. Please, put your critique hat on. I'm not posting this to stir water or be insulting. But I did read the whole thing, and as part of the audience, I'd guess NJOE is still looking for feedback as a whole. So please, consider this some feedback both for the author and site reviews as a whole, if you'd like.

Iurus, you make a lot of really good commentary in this review. Although I think you nitpick a bit too much, that's just how I feel having read a bunch of your reviews (i.e. "Let’s look, for instance, at the last paragraph of Chapter 4 and the first paragraph of Chapter 5."). This was a massive undertaking on your part, but (having already used the word earlier in this paragraph), I felt like this was more of a commentary - a play-by-play - than a review. Probably spurred on, in part, by starting each review segment with something like "From Lord Iurus’s notes, taken at 9pm on February 15th." I actually thought your last portion of the review, talking about Nick Rostu and Kar Vastor and not remembering them from Shatterpoint, was a great point. I felt the same way reading the book! But all in all, it's a pretty bad way to end the review. It didn't have any wrap up, it just sort of... ended abruptly.

I'm actually curious as to what others feel about my next point:

I loathe roleplaying reviews. When I read a review, I want to know that I'm reading from the point of view of a passionate fan like myself. I'd put the point of view of someone like Kirr way above any random friend of mine who might happen to read a Star Wars book. I think that's one thing that fan sites really have going for them in this regard. There are knowledgeable, passionate fans who are ready to voice their opinions. That's the problem I had with the Deceived review too. I didn't know if I was getting the point of view of Iurus the real life person, or the character. And that carried over into this review. If that's just a stylistic review style, that's fine. But I think you do your audience a real disservice, especially since I think people just want to read a review. As I said before, a reviewer's duty is, first and only, to the reader. The epic-sized story that was interspersed throughout the review didn't do a thing for me. By the sixth page, people are turning into Power Rangers and it's longer than the review, and I actually stopped and asked myself just what the heck I was reading. On one hand, the review was knowledgeable. On the other hand, the accompanying story didn't seem to have any reason for being included. You could have cut the story completely and expanded the actual review, which I feel (as a reader) got the short end of the stick in favor of the story, and had an overall great review that could have been read in a single sitting. But I felt that this review was bloated, and that the reviewer was instead catering to himself and the close-nit group of friends that all had starring (or cameo) roles in the review before the reader. I think that's a dangerous mistake, because it alienates the average reader who might not know a thing about any of the characters that show up in the review.

So yeah, that's my take on the review. I did want to read it, because I felt like your post was, in some way, looking for feedback. Plus, NJOE as a whole has seeming to have been searching for some feedback. Obviously, I mean no malice or ill-will with any of these comments. Simply providing some feedback that will either be taken, or not. And at the end of the day, that's not my call. But as a longtime site reader, I thought I'd chime in with my perspective.

I think my comments made it pretty clear where I thought the concept went wrong, so I won't revert to repeating myself. As I said, this was just my opinion and I'm very curious to see if anyone else will chime in with different (or perhaps similar) feelings.

But I will say that saying things like

My first inclination (as I think most people who put this much into their writing) is to blame you, saying you didn't understand what you were reading.

is incredibly belittling, and I think it proves my point. If you are reverting to blaming the reader for a colossal review that misses its mark, then I think it's clear that you've either got thin skin or you're (as I insinuated in my earlier post) catering to yourself before your readers. I'm a college graduate, with a degree in journalism. I've worked in my fair share of real life news rooms, been published in the Washington Post, and I now work for the federal government in an investigative capacity. I deal with reading and writing on a daily basis, as I have my whole life. So the idea that I wouldn't understand what I'm reading is laughable, and I would advise you that if your first inclinations tend to be so absurd, to just ignore them in the future. Especially since you're in a leadership role on NJOE. Obviously, you say that to be mean, petty, or because you just have no filter. I do hope another member of the staff will pull you aside and fill you in on what you should and shouldn't say to site members in the future. No, my problem was that I completely understood what I was reading. A review shouldn't be a story. It should be a review. As a reader, my patience was tried as soon as the story began and the review stopped. It's not why I'm reading a review, to read a story. The difference between a bloated six page review and a bloated 20 page review is minimal, because you'll have turned your audience off with either one. As I said, it took three sittings to read this review. If it weren't for me going through all of it to offer some feedback, I just wouldn't have bothered at all. I'm hoping someone else will comment, because I'm not sure if people have either read it and don't feel like posting feedback, if they didn't read or finish it due to length, or if they simply don't want to leave feedback for something they didn't enjoy. I mean, we saw how long it took to get video review feedback. And that's why I'm sharing my thoughts now, because if something can be fixed or changed for the betterment of NJOE... why wait?

Look at it this way: William Shatner wrote several Star Trek novels centering on the continued life of Jim Kirk. Is this considered roleplaying the character?

That has nothing to do with your review. So Shatner wrote some books that centered on his character. Ok, but he didn't write them as Kirk. He includes other characters in his stories, he just kept the story of his favorite character going. You, on the other hand, are writing AS a different person than someone that you are. Why even need to create a character at all? If this Lord Iurus fellow is the same as you, but with an added affinity for Sith lore... well... do YOU have that added affinity? Or is it made up for the character? Because if it's the former, just embrace it and write as you. And if its the latter, you shouldn't be something that you're not. I know you emulate a lot of these weird reviewers (like Angry Video Game Nerd) out there that have a schtick and turn the dial to 11, but personally I have never enjoyed any of those reviewers. It's style over substance, and I don't think NJOE is the place for reviews like them. I think it's great that you have an outlet in the form of your website, where you can work on mastering your craft, but I don't think it translates to NJOE, because the audience doesn't come here looking for zany, complicated reviews that they need to slug through to find what they're looking for. People come here for Star Wars discussion, and the reviews should just be a regular, simple affair that caters to that audience.

You shouldn't respond to criticisms, and you certainly don't do it well. You just take it, and then either use it to improve, or you shrug it off. Whoever told you that you shouldn't take my thoughts and break them down was giving you some great advice, because now I'm even less impressed with the review and the reasons behind it then I was before you responded. I figured you'd wouldn't be happy, considering I'm basically telling you that your schtick doesn't work, at least not here. But that's my opinion, and its one that I know I'm not alone in thinking. And this was a post that I worked on crafting for a little while, because I don't want anyone getting the feeling that I'm being rude or insensitive or whatever other horrible thing people think I'm trying to be when I'm being honest. It's not even a blunt honesty, but this is what feedback that isn't positive looks like.

Please, take what I've said and use it or not. But responding in a confrontational tone makes it look like NJOE isn't interested in any feedback that isn't anything less than super positive. Hopefully, I've misread that intention, given that both Kirr and Acky have seemed to open the doors for feedback lately.

I can understand that, Acky. I just think the post could have done without it. It's not the most flattering internal opinion that most of us, myself included, have when confronted with something that we don't like. Perhaps I should have quoted the entire sentence, because I'll bold the part that rubbed me the wrong way.

My first inclination (as I think most people who put this much into their writing) is to blame you, saying you didn't understand what you were reading. While that very well may be true, I think it's quite apparent that this is a failing not of the reader, but of the writer.

I can assure you, it's not the slightest bit true. I think that, having a few other members jump in and react similarly to Iurus's statements, it's clear that it wasn't something that I was blowing out of proportion. It was just something that either shouldn't have been said, or could have been crafted with a bit more care. That said, I'm more than happy to give Iurus the benefit of the doubt. I read his post prior to his edit, and I think it's clear that he didn't mean to come across exactly as he sounded.

Kirr Mistwelder wrote:

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For what it's worth - I'm reading the interchange here, without having read the review (I admit, I don't always have the chance, and I haven't had the chance so far with this one) - and I'll say that it seems to me that no one has been rude or confrontational. I don't think Iurus specifically asked for feedback on this review, but I think we're always looking to improve - so anyone taking time to write up their thoughts is appreciated.

The reason I popped into this thread with feedback is because the first post is a list of almost 40 links to reviews that Iurus has done. He has only posted twice since, pointing out new reviews. I took that as meaning that he had spent a considerable amount of time on this review, and was looking for feedback. I know what it's like to write something, and then just never get any feedback. It stinks. I went into it not knowing what to expect overall, but I felt it would be a disservice to check it out and not respond at all. A few others have posted since my original post, sharing some similar viewpoints. I don't know if it just took someone to break the ice and allow other site visitors the opportunity to respond with similar thinking, but I don't think we should ever be afraid to speak up and let someone know when, in our opinion, something isn't working.

Kirr, I hope that you get an opportunity to read the review and share your thoughts on the review soon. I know it's me (with all the lovely baggage I tend to lug around with me), but now we've gotten some opinions of other regular site members that have echoed some of my thoughts. I'm curious as to where you'd fall in the spectrum. In fact, I'm curious if anyone on staff read this review prior to it being posted (which I'd assume is the case, given everything should ideally be proofread by another set of eyes) and, if so, what the opinions of the proofreader(s) would have been.

I think that this is a series of reviews that Iurus has been building on for some time, with the story aspects (hence the linking in the first post). That doesn't mean it's working for everyone - or anyone - but it may be a lot to ask for feedback from similar-minded folks in a forum post. I'll look into setting up a poll sometime soon to gauge interest in story-based or RP reviews. In the meantime, we'll take your thoughts into consideration and see if there's anything that can be applied as changes in future reviews.

I see that you've set up the poll on the front page. Thanks!