Why Is It Del Ray's Fault?!

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MizzeeOH	Why Is It Del Ray's Fault?!		Lead	[-]
Posts: 2058 08/07/08 5:57 PM	Tags : del, ray I've been confused for quite awhile now about why everyone blames Del Ray for the recent books that have come out and how they're not the best. Also the covers, like MF, or at least I think I saw some people blaming Del Ray about the cover. At the risk of sounding like a noob, lol, I'm confused. Isn't it the authors that write the stories? And the artists that do the covers? I think this is the right place to put this topic. If not, sorry. "The deeds of heroes send ripples spreading through the Force. Anakin's life continues to flow outward, touching and guiding those who have yet to hear his name. Most of us here use the Force-this young man embodied it." -Kyp Durron
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DarkLord Caedus		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 141 08/07/08 6:19 PM	I have no idea why, half the time I just ignore them...HALF the time. Check out my NEW fanfic story here: http://unjoe.yuku.com/topic/3682
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x wingurly		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1933 08/07/08 6:27 PM	Well if it isn't the right place Acky will move it so no worries for me, the cover of MF was just predicatble. Not bad, just predicatable and people will interpret that how they want. As for "it's their fault" are you talking about the recent discussion about the conflict between DH and DR? because if you are, if you read back through the posts i think you will find your answer. If not then I am confused. (sorry!) And most people have a gripe with ONE book (Invincible) in particular that DR approved but others interpret that as we all hate everything (why I don't know why) which is not the case and can be proven by reading the past threads. Not that I recommend that because it may take awhile. Hope I answered it??
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Jaina SoIo		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2706 08/07/08 7:20 PM	Anything and everything related to the books must be approved by the editors of Del Rey first. If they don't like something, or don't think it's up to standards, or isn't working with the direction Del Rey wants the story to go, they are the ones who are responsible for putting a stop to it. They can, and they have--Knightfall and Escape from Dagu were both cancelled (in the case of Knightfall, the first book had already been completed). Del Rey is responsible, above all, for QUALITY CONTROL. We as readers shell out a lot of money over the course of a year, and expect to get our money's worth. That's why people blame Del Rey for things like Invincible. Yes, Troy Denning was responsible for writing the book, but Del Rey were the ones who green-lighted it for publishing. They could have easily stepped in and said, "You know, there's a lot of things missing in this book, it doesn't really feel like the finale of a series, and 299 pages is awfully short, especially if people are paying $30 for a hardcover". They could have handed it back to Troy and not accepted it until it was up to their standards of excellence. They didn't, however, and that makes them equally (if not more) responsible for the disaster that was Invincible (obviously this is a personal opinion, not trying to speak for everyone because I know it's a touchy subject). The same goes for the book covers. Millennium Falcon's cover is not terrible, but it's rather boring. It's up to the editor to decide whether that book cover is not up to the standards of excellence, or if it's 'good enough'. In my mind, when I see a book cover like MF, I get a feeling that Del Rey is either being lazy or cheap, or both. We have gotten some spectacular covers from Del Rey-commissioned artists in the past, so a bar has been set, and I expect each and every cover to reach or exceed that standard. The MF cover fell short of that bar, IMO, and that tells me that someone in the editing office isn't concerned enough with the cover art. That makes me concerned that subsequent books covers are going to be equally boring. Obviously you can't judge a book by it's cover, but considering the subject matter, I think Star Wars books deserve a cover that reflects the excitement contained within the pages, rather than something that I look at and say, "Meh." TL;DR: Del Rey is responsible for everything that is placed on bookstore shelves. Del Rey has the power to veto any product that is not up to standards, so if poor-quality product ends up on the shelves, Del Rey is to blame.
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Iurus		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3306 08/07/08 7:37 PM	Del Rey gives final approval. If you look at movies, the director actually pmakes it, but the producer is responsible for allowing it to be made. Another example (works for me, not sure about some of you) is that a general might be allowed to carry out a poorly planned battle, and much of the fault belongs to the Chief of Staff. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
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Fettster		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 848 08/07/08 8:28 PM	Jaina said: Knightfall and Escape from Dagu were both cancelled (in the case of Knightfall, the first book had already been completed). Escape from Dagu was also already completed; they said they shredded the manuscript when people asked if it would ever be released in some other form. The person answering the question put it this way: "If The Crystal Star had been canceled would you want to see it, too?" When the world needs him, the warrior Fet'antilles will rise again from the grave.
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Jaina SoIo		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2712 08/07/08 8:41 PM	What? Is that really what someone said? I love how all the editors say "Well, the story wasn't going in the direction that we wanted it to" or "We needed to make room for another book release" instead of just coming out and saying "It was just a poorly-written book, not up to our standards of quality". I mean, obviously they wouldn't say that so as not to offend the writer, but sometimes I wish editors were more frank with us. Instead of pretending like we're morons and saying "299 pages of wall to wall action!", I wish they would have said "Yes, 299 pages is on the short side, but it's packed full of action and important events." I probably could have swallowed that a bit better. I wish some of these manuscripts were available to us to read, if only for the curiosity factor. Yes, that includes The Crystal Star if it had never been released. :P
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Iurus		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3309 08/08/08 12:44 AM	What's so bad about Waru? Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
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Jaina SoIo		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2713 08/08/08 1:55 AM	I have a very special place in my heart for The Crystal Star. It's the first Star Wars book I ever read! Of course, I read it when I was 12 years old, so the horrendous parts probably didn't phase me back then...
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Kirr Mistwelder		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1402 08/08/08 8:49 AM	Ugh - that's my worst fear, a new reader who has the poor luck of picking one of the worst books as their first SW novel. That said, there are good parts of The Crystal Star. The Solo children actually come off well - and I enjoyed Leia finding those 'apprentices' of Vader. The Han/Luke plot however... Back to Del Rey. I've certainly been mentioning that I also think Del Rey is purposefully making some of these decisions. In the original post, covers are mentioned. If Del Rey is not responsible for the covers on these books, who do you think is? Yes, obviously an artist makes the cover, but ultimately if it's crap, do you think Del Rey would still use it? So, let's call a duck a duck - Del Rey is responsible for the covers. I think they have recently moved in a direction to try and use iconic images on the covers of hardcover books. Allegiance = Stormtroopers. Death Star = Death Star (and a fairly nice picture of it). Dark Lord = Vader. Millenium Falcon = Millenium Falcon/Star Destroyer. Shadows of Mindor = Luke/X-Wing. Clone Wars = Clone helmet. Some of these examples are nicely done, others not so much. Some of them make sense, others not so much. It's a general trend of a direction I think Del Rey is moving in with it's covers, and I don't particularly like it. Now just like covers, poor writing is in the eye of the beholder. I liked Invincible. I do think it could have used a good editor going back to Denning and telling him to add some more material at the end. Editor = Del Rey. If you're unhappy with the fact that certain authors get used over and over again - guess who makes that decision? Yup - Del Rey. LFL itself is not blameless - though they are a little more removed (and running an entire empire, not just the EU lit).
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x wingurly		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1939 08/08/08 9:55 AM	LFL itself is not blameless - though they are a little more removed (and running an entire empire, not just the EU lit). I think LFL has given DR a lot of autonomy. Yes, they have to know what is going on, but minus the big 3 and maybe a couple of other things, they let DR and DH for that matter hash things out on their own which can be good but in the case of Invincible, bad. And Crystal star wasn't terrible. No, if we really want to talk mistakes then all we have to do is look at the Black fleet trilogy. sorry to anyone who liked those books but they are probably the only SW's novels that I cannot stomach.
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patchworkz7		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 256 08/08/08 10:50 AM	Kirr Mistwelder wrote: Ugh - that's my worst fear, a new reader who has the poor luck of picking one of the worst books as their first SW novel. That said, there are good parts of The Crystal Star. The Solo children actually come off well - and I enjoyed Leia finding those 'apprentices' of Vader. The Han/Luke plot however... Back to Del Rey. I've certainly been mentioning that I also think Del Rey is purposefully making some of these decisions. In the original post, covers are mentioned. If Del Rey is not responsible for the covers on these books, who do you think is? Yes, obviously an artist makes the cover, but ultimately if it's crap, do you think Del Rey would still use it? So, let's call a duck a duck - Del Rey is responsible for the covers. I think they have recently moved in a direction to try and use iconic images on the covers of hardcover books. Allegiance = Stormtroopers. Death Star = Death Star (and a fairly nice picture of it). Dark Lord = Vader. Millenium Falcon = Millenium Falcon/Star Destroyer. Shadows of Mindor = Luke/X-Wing. Clone Wars = Clone helmet. Some of these examples are nicely done, others not so much. Some of them make sense, others not so much. It's a general trend of a direction I think Del Rey is moving in with it's covers, and I don't particularly like it. Now just like covers, poor writing is in the eye of the beholder. I liked Invincible. I do think it could have used a good editor going back to Denning and telling him to add some more material at the end. Editor = Del Rey. If you're unhappy with the fact that certain authors get used over and over again - guess who makes that decision? Yup - Del Rey. LFL itself is not blameless - though they are a little more removed (and running an entire empire, not just the EU lit). Just a quick FYI on covers; Karen Traviss fought for original covers on her RC novels and managed to win the right to have Greg Bridges, the concept artist for the game, create the original cover for RC: True Colors, she lost the battle to get a similar cover for RC:O66, however. Every now and then a writer manages to leverage a little bit of input, but book covers have long been a bone of contention with me, especially genre covers, most of which are horrifically mismatched. The problem is that the art departments insist that "know what sells", so no one, not even editors or the books, can over-rule the art department. Suggestions can be made, but it's the art director that has the final decision, and they create what they think will sell the best based on trends and the genre and current climate. I have strong feelings on the quality of most genre book covers, and most every author has a horror story to share about getting a horrifically mismatched cover to their book. I'm not even sure how much sway LFL would have as far as covers go, as the publisher's art department are a law unto themselves.
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patchworkz7		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 257 08/08/08 10:51 AM	Jaina SoIo wrote: I have a very special place in my heart for The Crystal Star. It's the first Star Wars book I ever read! Of course, I read it when I was 12 years old, so the horrendous parts probably didn't phase me back then... I still have avoided THE CRYSTAL STAR, but I think I'll pick it up next time in the store, just to see what 12 year old you saw in it
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MizzeeOH		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2081 08/08/08 4:51 PM	Ah, see, I didn't realize that DR editors read the books, saw the covers first, ect. Makes more sense now when people bring up Del Ray. Thanks. "The deeds of heroes send ripples spreading through the Force. Anakin's life continues to flow outward, touching and guiding those who have yet to hear his name. Most of us here use the Force-this young man embodied it." -Kyp Durron
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Jaina SoIo		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2717 08/08/08 4:52 PM	Kirr, you totally proved my point with bringing up the LSatSoM book. All the other covers you brought up are simple but relatively uninteresting. But then you bring up SoM cover, and while it still has the iconic image that all the others have, visually it's about 290384230948209834 times more interesting than all the others put together. It's hand-painted, action-packed, full of images--it's what I think every Star Wars cover ought to look like (and that amazing back cover! WOW!). Why in the world would Del Rey continue to pick simple, visually uninteresting images when they've got a cover like LSatSoM?! Why wouldn't they want more covers like that?! Someone brought this up, but the answer might have to do with marketing: having more subdued images that don't scream cheesy Star Wars all over it might appeal to an audience who doesn't usually read Star Wars. People think Star Wars and they think of a kid's movie. Harry Potter has alternate covers for kids and adults--the kids covers are bright and colorful, whereas the adult covers don't show anything that might hint that it's a book about kid wizards. So, where the LSatSoM cover might scream kiddy movie, the Order 66, Death Star and Darth Vader books are a little more mature-looking. I guess that's the only thing I can think of when it comes to the MF cover. As far as liking certain Bantam books, well, there were only a few I didn't like. I read all of them between 1997 and 1998 (yes, pretty much ALL of them), so I was 12-13 years old, so my palate might not have been mature enough to know I was reading a bad book. I remember not liking Planet of Twilight until the very end, because it was a tough political read and I found it kind of boring. I remember having to re-start Specter of the Past about 3 times before I was finally able to finish it. I didn't hate it, I just struggled with it a lot (VotF made up for it). Recently, Allegiance was the biggest snoozefest I've read since Diplomacy by Henry Kissinger. And I can honestly say that Invincible is the only Star Wars book I've ever hated to date. So yeah, I liked CS, BFC, CotJ, and all those others that everyone really didn't like... But it's been a lot time since I've read them. I'm tempted to go back and re-read a few of them. totally loved Callista
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Acky12		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12271 08/08/08 10:40 PM	I'm feeling like a bit of a moron, but what was Escape from Dagu ?
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DarkLord Caedus		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 161 08/08/08 10:41 PM	A Clone Wars book focusing on Shaak Ti. Check out my NEW fanfic story here: http://unjoe.yuku.com/topic/3682
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anakinsoloII		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1654 08/08/08 10:42 PM	Another Clone Wars era book that had Shaak Ti as the main character. Cancelled for some reason. Ironically, the book's events are canonical. Anakin Solo=BEST SW CHARACTER EVER I reserve the right to call anyone I want insane. After all, we're all insane. We all hang out on a site to discuss a Science Fiction series <------ What I strive for
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Neja Halcyon		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 142 08/08/08 10:46 PM	anakinsoloII wrote: Another Clone Wars era book that had Shaak Ti as the main character. Cancelled for some reason. Ironically, the book's events are canonical. Really? I hadn't heard that. Like what's canon from it?
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anakinsoloII		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1655 08/08/08 10:50 PM	just the general plot, I think. Anakin Solo=BEST SW CHARACTER EVER I reserve the right to call anyone I want insane. After all, we're all insane. We all hang out on a site to discuss a Science Fiction series <------ What I strive for
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Neja Halcyon		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 08/08/08 10:53 PM	So nothing earth shattering like "Shaak Ti is dead" then? haha
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Why Is It Del Ray's Fault?!

Why Is It Del Ray's Fault?!

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