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Vergere was Lumiya's Sith Master - From WOTC

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kevinmhk	Vergere was Lumiya's Sith Master - From WOTC		Lead	[-]
Posts: 41 07/10/08 1:04 PM	Tags : None According to this article on Wizard of the Coast (Scroll down to The New Jedi Order Era): http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/BtT1 Lumiya was not a full Sith (despite her pre-Endor training under Sidious & Vader, and post-Endor training by Holocrons and on Korriban) until Vergere became her Sith Master in NJO Era and train Lumiya into a full Sith. Express your thoughts "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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Iurus		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3085 07/10/08 1:15 PM	As a traditionalist, I would argue that she was never a true Sith- in the way that none since Palpatine have been that we're aware of. She mastered one Sith technique, but I have yet to see a usage of Sith Sorcery by her. I would also argue that the article is not taking into account her training on Korriban, as that usually is enough to turn a Jedi into a Sith, and she was darker than a Jedi already. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
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kevinmhk		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 42 07/10/08 1:19 PM	Maybe we should instead argue that did Vergere learnt that much Sith knowledge from Sidious to be able to train Lumiya into a Sith? "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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x wingurly		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1709 07/10/08 2:33 PM	Mmm, I thought vergere didn't turn dark until after she left for zonoma sekot and spent her time among the YV. And as I think people are grasping at straws of trying to justify the retcon of vergere being dark, I don't agree with it.
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kevinmhk		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 07/10/08 9:39 PM	x wingurly wrote: Mmm, I thought vergere didn't turn dark until after she left for zonoma sekot and spent her time among the YV. According to retcon , Vergere was one of Sidious' candidate besides Dooku. She tried to assassinate Sidious, failed, and feld the galaxy by allowing the Yuuzhan Vong to capture her. But I think I recall somewhere along the first few LOTF novels that Lumiya told Jacen she is not, and never can be, a full / true Sith Master due to her cybernetic replacement, which made her more machine than woman now. "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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JediVergere7		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 54 07/10/08 10:09 PM	I still wonder about Vergere really being a Sith mostly because of her time spent on Zonoma Sekot. As I recall she was loved greatly by Sekot and even bonded with several slave seeds. If I remember correctly the slave seeds were very picky about who they would bond with (they rejected Kyp) so it seems unlikely that they would bond with a Sith. Also why would Vergere save the YV from total genicide (Alpha Red) if she was indeed a Sith Master. And why did she save Mara with her tears if she was a Sith Master. I know Del Rey said the mystery of Vergere would be revealed in LOTF but I can't help but feel like they suckered us all with their terrible recon of her character. I really think that the people at Del Rey think we the readers are stupid because some of the stuff they come up with is so lame...
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kevinmhk		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 48 07/10/08 10:17 PM	Not only Zonama Sekot is Yuuzhan'tar, the residence of Sekot were followers of Potentium, which is a corrupt, misguided philosophy according to the old Jedi Order. In retrospect, saving YV from genocide allows the Sith-Imperial War to happen, saving Mara allows Jacen to kill her and became Caedus (these 2 are more of a joke than a real argument, but who knows? Maybe she is a great seer and saw all this in her meditation :D) "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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JediVergere7		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 55 07/10/08 10:28 PM	Your arguments according to the current recon are probably not to far off however in the spirit that Vergere was first presented, I argue that it did not appear that Vergere was indeed Sith. It just seemed like she was really nothing anymore (neither Jedi or Sith). She just seemed to have her own agenda. Maybe that agenda was to train Jacen Solo to be a Sith? Although that didn't seem to accomplish much. Or maybe her motives were less selfish. Maybe she really wanted Jacen to transend his early days of impotence. Maybe she just wanted him to know how to act of his own accord even if that meant becoming a Sith. For me she was so much more thant he box Del Rey has now put her into. Also why did she save Han? I guess so Jacen could break his heart in the future.
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kevinmhk		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49 07/10/08 11:07 PM	Vergere deliberately told an outright lie to Jacen during Traitor: she claimed that the Jedi Order would never build their Temple on a dark side Force nexus if the Force really has a dark side: but the truth is, Lord Nyax just died around the Jedi Temple ruins and released a large surge of dark side energy from his dead body. This outright lie not only discredited the Jedi Order and further made Jacen to embrace the dark side willingly. I always think that this action places her more dark than ever. Sadly, we have to follow the rules of canon ? Do you think MF, which would deal with Luke investigating why Jacen fell to the dark side, would again explore Lumiya and Vergere? "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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petersearing		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 242 07/11/08 5:27 AM	i want to know how vergere found time to be alone with luymaia to trai her until agents of chaos she was with elan and then during the defection she was in the hands of the NR afterwards she was rescued by the yuzhan vong and helped them again as seen in sbs and in desinys way she join the NR and then died. so accoeding to the books there wasnt any time for her to go away and train a spprentice
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kevinmhk		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 56 07/11/08 5:36 AM	That's why many fans feel the retcon was forced due to fans outrage of such an un-Jedi like Old Republic Jedi. Maybe........... maybe Vergere use Force Phantom to communicate with Lumiya ? "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" --Darth Sidious to Yoda, Revenge of the Sith novelization
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MrNomAnor		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7527 07/11/08 6:42 AM	I was totally hoping someone would bring this up here, as I was so unashamedly lazy for not copying and posting here. What pisses me off is this: They outright state that Lumiya was NOT a "proper" Sith until trained by Vergere, as if the universe WOULD actually implode because there LITERALLY CANNOT be two Sith at any given time. That is crap. I also take issue with the line that says that in the Legacy Era, Sith are more RARE than they are in the Rebellion Era. The Rebellion Era which had two Sith at any given time: Vader and Palpatine. Then then Legacy Era, which has EITHER Lumiya, Jacen and White Eyes' group OR Jacen and White Eyes' group OR White Eyes' group depending at exactly which time you're looking at. This is all before the awakening of Darth Krayt of course. Um... is not that a direct contradiction of what they said earlier in the article? It's like the whole "Vergere is a Sith" issue was this big festering sore, and ever since Dark Nest they keep poking at that saw with a knife and making it ten time worse. STOP IT. NOW. Because now it's getting personal and they're dragging My Luscious Lady into this massive continuity pothole.
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kevinmhk		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 65 07/11/08 8:37 AM	MNA, your comment motivates me to review post-Endor Sith acitivities / timeline tonight... Kevin's favorites as of 11 July 08: My top 3 favorite characters in the New Jedi Order: Anakin Solo, Vergere, Nom Anor My favorite novel in the New Jedi Order: Star By Star My top 3 favorite characters in Legacy of the Force: Lumiya, Ben Skywalker, Cha Niathal My favorite novel in Legacy of the Force: Inferno My favorite Dark Horse Star Wars comics: Legacy, Tales of the Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic, Crimson Empire, Dark Empire My favorite Expanded Universe character of all time: Grand Admiral Thrawn My favorite Expanded Universe works of all time: Revenge of the Sith novel, The Thrawn Trilogy, Shatterpoint
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x wingurly		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1712 07/11/08 9:25 AM	That's why many fans feel the retcon was forced due to fans outrage of such an un-Jedi like Old Republic Jedi. Such close mindedness gave birth to the idea of turning Jacen solo into a sith. I also take issue with the line that says that in the Legacy Era, Sith are more RARE than they are in the Rebellion Era. The Rebellion Era which had two Sith at any given time: Vader and Palpatine. Then then Legacy Era, which has EITHER Lumiya, Jacen and White Eyes' group OR Jacen and White Eyes' group OR White Eyes' group depending at exactly which time you're looking at. This is all before the awakening of Darth Krayt of course. Um... is not that a direct contradiction of what they said earlier in the article? DR dug itself into a continiutity, contradicting hole. I think they know it which is why so many things were left untold in Legacy. Better to be vague then admit that you messed with big parts of the storyline. Either way they are screwed. Oh well, DR can still be redeemed in that sense if they give us some amazing stories before the legacy comics take place.
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Rouge77		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2076 07/11/08 7:12 PM	I do think that it wasn't just ust us fans - we might be totally innocent, I think - that made DR turn Jacen and Vergere into Sith, instead I think it was probably just DR being giddy that they could finally use the Sith in other than PT era and then just went and made themselves several new Sith (and one existing one, Darth Bane) to play with.
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BobaKareu		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 548 07/13/08 11:04 AM	Vergere returned as a Force Ghost. She couldn't have been a Dark Sider. The Complete Star Wars EU Journey: http://www.bobakareu.blogspot.com/
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petersearing		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 245 07/13/08 11:50 AM	anakin was a sith and he came back (though he was redemed)
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BobaKareu		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 549 07/13/08 12:29 PM	Right, but he died redeemed. By all accounts, Vergere was simply grooming Jacen to be the next big Sith Lord. And she certainly wasn't redeemed at the time of her death, were that the case. The Complete Star Wars EU Journey: http://www.bobakareu.blogspot.com/
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Fettster		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 785 07/13/08 2:54 PM	BobaKareu wrote: Vergere returned as a Force Ghost. She couldn't have been a Dark Sider. Could have been an illusion of Lumiya's, but I still refuse to believe that Vergere was Sith. I think it's the only bit of canon I reject outright. When the world needs him, the warrior Fet'antilles will rise again from the grave.
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MrNomAnor		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7552 07/13/08 7:19 PM	And that alone is a sign that the world is ending. And how bad this situation is. I actually have half a mind to jaunt over to the TOS VIP question threa and ask Sue Rostoni: Since Vergere is a Sith, how does LucasFilm/Del Rey explain her BLUE Force Ghost in Destiny's Way? I bet she either does not answer, or does, but with some vague unsatisfactory response. I am tempted to ask though, as no one else has asked this yet.
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BobaKareu		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 551 07/13/08 7:32 PM	MrNomAnor wrote: And that alone is a sign that the world is ending. And how bad this situation is. I actually have half a mind to jaunt over to the TOS VIP question threa and ask Sue Rostoni: Since Vergere is a Sith, how does LucasFilm/Del Rey explain her BLUE Force Ghost in Destiny's Way? I bet she either does not answer, or does, but with some vague unsatisfactory response. I am tempted to ask though, as no one else has asked this yet. You should, if only because I don't know how to. As for it being an illusion of Lumiya, I ran across that theory too. The only problem is that would be a retcon, as the plot for LotF hadn't even been thought up yet when Destiny's Way was released. The Complete Star Wars EU Journey: http://www.bobakareu.blogspot.com/
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Vergere was Lumiya's Sith Master - From WOTC

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