Health Care in The Lakes of Alderaan

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petersearing		#101	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3060 Sep 19 09 11:05 AM	Remove this ad Right to answer some questions. Our health care systems works in the way that everyone has access to all treatments. For example if you have a heart attack you will get the same treatment as the next person generally so someone on state benefits could expect the same treatment as say a top lawyer. I use generally because there are differences for example last September i was hit by a car crossing the road resulting in me having serious head injuries, now where i was living at the time is a very rural area with only one major hospital to cover the area. When i was taken in i was put in their ICU however a bed was available in the Southern Central England head/brain injury unit and because i was young and likely to survive i was transferred to there. Now some people may take this in the same way that politicians across the pond have in saying that people like Edward Kennedy wouldn't have been treated but that is not the case. The point of our system is that when it was set up in the late 40's it was a free at point of order, however recently it has slightly changed for example we now have to pay when we have an eye test or a routine dental check up which does annoy me, however for major treatment it would be free. The major trouble for our system is the government finding money to pay for the NHS ( i believe its the second biggest taker of money apart from state benifits). Ive never been furious with the system really however that may have more to do with the fact that im only 21 and havnt used it much. one of the biggest complains people have is that it can be a bit of a lottery in terms of quality treatment that you get as some hospitals will have better doctors with more exerience then others. There is also the fact that an organisation called NICE have to look at all new drugs that come onto the market and see if they are worth allowing hospitals of offer them. e.g to they improven the patients live enough to be worth the cost. While most do get on a number of drugs arnt allowed which can extend often cancer patients lives by a few months as they cost so much money. The thing with our system is that you can get private care (though generaly for a lot of money) and if you go private you often get the private treatment at the same hospital which has lead to cases of doctors helping to scam the system in helping patients who want some of there treatment privatly but want some to be on the NHS. We also don't as far as I and the public are aware that there are no death panels which decide if someone should die however our hospitals do have limited resources and if the choice came up between a 40 year old who was activly employed or a 80 year old retired person and they could only save one person then the 40 year old would get treated As a student i live in Selly Oak Birmingham and around the corner from me we have one of Birmingham's major hospitals with large A&E and lots of intensive care etc and its actually the Hospital the the army use to treat all the seriously injured soldiers from Afghanistan which says a lot i think. If people want more questions answered ill do my best to answer them Edited 2 times by petersearing Sep 19 09 11:08 AM.
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Uliah		#102	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6488 Sep 19 09 12:48 PM	one of the biggest complains people have is that it can be a bit of a lottery in terms of quality treatment that you get as some hospitals will have better doctors with more exerience then others. We have the same issue here. That's the way it is with hospitals. Some are better than others. Also, by law, emergency rooms here cannot turn away anyone. They are required to treat anyone who comes in. This came about because people were dying because ERs were refusing to treat them and sending them on somewhere else. Now it's created a whole different issue which, of course, relates directly to the one in seven Americans not having health care coverage. I'm actually seeing, from your description a fair number of similarities, although maybe for different reasons. Your NICE agency is an example. Over here, we have the same issue but it relates to the health insurance industry refusing to pay for certain drugs that are expensive. Evidently prolonging life by a few months isn't a good enough justification for the expense here either. The idea of death panels is ludicrous. For one thing, this country is too litigious for that to be viable. And believe it or not, most doctors and nurses take their oaths very seriously. With that said, however, given limited resources, including those of time and staff, it's natural to make a decision in favor of saving a younger person vs an older one. It's natural in more ways than one. A younger person is a more viable (as in biologically programmed) choice for survival than an elderly one. The elderly are suppose to die to make room for subsequent generations. Their most basic function -- survival of the species -- has been accomplished.
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petersearing		#103	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3060 Sep 19 09 1:23 PM	Uliah wrote: Also, by law, emergency rooms here cannot turn away anyone. They are required to treat anyone who comes in. This came about because people were dying because ERs were refusing to treat them and sending them on somewhere else. Now it's created a whole different issue which, of course, relates directly to the one in seven Americans not having health care coverage. I think this is one of the the biggest idea we here in the UK have about your system we hear that people who don't have any insurance if they have an accident will be just left to died. What is probably the most scandalous thing for us here to think about is that the figure of around 50m for people with out insurance is approximatly the same populatin of England with the UK in totlal at 63m not far ahead. How can a suituation develop where the number of people who dont have insurance equals the population of another major western country. The way forward i think for the USA should be a system where everyoone can get state health care if they want but similar but not quite in the same way as in the UK have it so that thoose who want to can still go private I'm actually seeing, from your description a fair number of similarities, although maybe for different reasons. Your NICE agency is an example. Over here, we have the same issue but it relates to the health insurance industry refusing to pay for certain drugs that are expensive. Evidently prolonging life by a few months isn't a good enough justification for the expense here either. An organisation like NICE (national institute for clinical excellence) would be what would be set up i presume in the States if your health reforms go through so the insurance companies act like NICE. The idea of death panels is ludicrous. For one thing, this country is too litigious for that to be viable. And believe it or not, most doctors and nurses take their oaths very seriously. With that said, however, given limited resources, including those of time and staff, it's natural to make a decision in favor of saving a younger person vs an older one. It's natural in more ways than one. A younger person is a more viable (as in biologically programmed) choice for survival than an elderly one. The elderly are suppose to die to make room for subsequent generations. Their most basic function -- survival of the species -- has been accomplished. I can only report what i read in the British media when our papers were running with the anti NHS campaign last month it was report that i think t was Palin who said if the reforms were set up there would be death panels. As you say it's a silly suggestion which probably came from the fact that here we never have enough money so some people do miss out.
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revmacd		#104	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3883 Sep 19 09 6:21 PM	I wouldn't get too hung up on the number 50,000,000 Peter. Numbers of those sizes change the entire paradigm in ways the individual can't imagine. What works for ten million might not work for fifty million. To the individual there is no difference in those numbers because they are both so large but from a macro perspective twenty five million people paying into the system might be a minimum need to cover fixed costs and such. Anyway, it does change things in ways we might not even be aware of so I wouldn't let it be too daunting. I wanted to say before I prattled on any longer that I am sorry about your head injury. That sucks. I'm glad your still with us to discuss such matters. I am told the Obama administration is watching this thread with great interest and once we get it all sorted out we can fix this mess once and for all! So it seems that the health care system in the UK is much the same as Canada's. If there are subtle differences I admit I am ignorant to them so I will attempt not to make assumptions. It sounds to me like what you are saying though is that it is difficult to fund for your government and that some people of greater wealth decide to go the private route anyway so they can get the care to which they feel their wealth entitles them. I would be willing to live with these problems. It is expensive and it would be difficult to fund. All major advancement or achievement comes with a measure of pain. We'll adjust. It also sounds like the public plan you live with is basic insurance for the masses that can be approved upon for a fee. Meets my criteria too. The problem we have here Peter is that health insurance is tied directly to a persons employer. If you are the head of a household with seven kids and a stay at home Mom (because she has chosen to do the very important job of raising the children but sadly comes without health insurance coverage) you then have a household of nine people. If eight of the nine people get injured, there is no problem. If the one head of household got injured under the right circumstances (non-work or non-auto related) because he dumb ass fell down his own back stairs and broke his back and was out of work for a year, the whole family loses health insurance. It doesn't matter how much education you have. If you are a lawyer or a doctor or a businessman at the top of your game and you get injured badly enough to require pain killers that dull your mind making it impossible for you to do your job, everyone in your family loses. It could happen to anyone. I say again, at some point in every person's life, it could happen to them in this country. Happy if you made it and your set up so that it can't happen to you now but at some point in every single persons life, in this country, it could happen to you. You could get injured and go without insurance. You might come from a stinky rich family that doesn't care, but it could happen. That is the problem. There is no safety net if the person who is the primary on the insurance has an accident or illness. That is, in effect, what this is about for the middle class in America. Thanks for your insight Peter. That was great.
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Uliah		#105	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6488 Sep 19 09 10:29 PM	It's not just that, Rev. It's very difficult for a lot of young adults or small business employees to get healthcare coverage. A lot of them work for a small business that can't afford to carry a health insurance package on their employees. Or what you often see is an employer who does have health coverage, but gives most of their employees hours just short of full-time so they don't have to offer those employees health coverage. It isn't just the unemployed who are falling through the cracks in our society. There's plenty of employed people who can't get health coverage for one reason or another. Cobra isn't much of an answer for someone who's suddenly lost their job. It's very expensive -- which is some kind of logic as a benefit for the suddenly unemployed. There's also state medicade, but you can have very little -- and I mean very little -- in the way of assets to qualify. Usually if you're an able-bodied, out-of-work adult, you won't qualify anyway. medicade usually applies to single mothers with very little means of support. For instance, my general monthly income is around $2,000. I have a minor child. We don't qualify for medicade. Now my ex-husband is suppose to be paying 2/3 of the health coverage we have on our son. He doesn't; he never has. On $2,000 a month I don't have the funds to take him back to court to enforce the court order. So I am, as they say, SOL. I can't afford to cover my son and myself, so I have no health insurance because I'm self-employed and my income is to high to receive medicade.
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petersearing		#106	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3060 Sep 20 09 4:03 AM	I know what you say about employers paying the health insurance and when you here of companies like Ford having money problems you have to look and think is it sensible for companies/business to pay for the insurance as its liable to cost a fortune and could make a business collapse. I'd also like to ask how do students in America get covered. Do they still get covered but insurance that their parents may have forked when they were still at home or do your universities insure the students and add it on to whatever fees are paid because students if they are anything like students over here they have next to no money to funding health care for themselves would never . Edited 1 time by petersearing Sep 20 09 4:08 AM.
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Uliah		#107	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6488 Sep 20 09 4:19 PM	Peter, don't kid yourself. I'm sure the auto companies are invested in the insurance companies just as the insurance companies are invested in the drug companies. It's just one big conflict of interest.
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petersearing		#108	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3060 Sep 20 09 5:36 PM	im just throwing that out in the air not knowing to much about how the insurance system works. But if i was running a company i might look in to the idea of paying my workers a bit more money and allpowing them to get their own insurance and maybe only paying for those who have pre-exisiting probelms
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Iurus		#109	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10578 Sep 20 09 8:13 PM	Well, I can't speak for all schools in the US, but the two universities I've attended had a mandatory insurance policy: you're automatically enrolled in about a $1000/per semester insurance plan, and if you already have health insurance you can waive it. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. Check out my reviews and more at deviantArt!
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revmacd		#110	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3883 Oct 12 09 9:39 PM	Remove this ad Heh....he heh heh.... hahahaha.... I'm a sick man. I admit I am a sick twisted individual. There is no other way to explain my behavior on this new report from the health care industry. The one that says that the bill currently in the Senate will drive up health care coverage costs for everyone and so on. I love it! I still don't know the particulars of the report, I just know it's going to cause a shit storm. I mean, it hurts my position but I love that this report came out a week before the vote. GOD I LOVE AMERICAN POLITICS! Who needs the WWE or UFC or any of that when the real blood sport is played in Washington DC? I will now have a glorious week of point/counterpoint and rebuttal with my brother, the fascist. Oh! then there are those hippies at the gym. I didn't even know hippies were into fitness! There they are though, lifting weights and complaining the Ben&Jerry's doesn't make a frozen yogurt and loving all things liberal. Oh my it's going to be a fun week.
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BobaKareu		#111	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3302 Oct 12 09 10:33 PM	God bless Karen Ignagni.
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thebentwin		#112	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2209 Oct 13 09 6:47 PM	Finance Comitee passed Health Care Legislation with even a republican voting, I feel a change in the winds for national health care. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people don't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. Mariane Williamson If our country is worth dying for in time of war let us resolve that it is truly worth living for in time of peace. ~Hamilton Fish If you take advantage of everything America has to offer, there's nothing you can't accomplish. ~Geraldine Ferraro
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BobaKareu		#113	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3302 Oct 13 09 7:20 PM	thebentwin wrote: Finance Comitee passed Health Care Legislation with even a republican voting, I feel a change in the winds for national health care. BIPARTISAN SUPPORT! Does anyone really believe that? They get ONE Republican vote, and its like HELL YEAH WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER! I really hope everyone sees through that bullshit.
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DarkJedi		#114	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5431 Oct 13 09 9:18 PM	Also, the bill has no public option, so it's basically the same system we have now with a couple additions. tu.ne.cede.malis.sed.contra.audientior.ito "BRB Klingons," -Acky12 "Thiz one is perhapz too ferocious for a documentary children will watch." -Saba Sebatyne
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revmacd		#115	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3883 Oct 13 09 9:21 PM	Yeah.... that's a tough one to swallow. Oh how I wish I were a hyperbole salesman in DC this week!
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thebentwin		#116	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2209 Oct 14 09 3:32 PM	Nowhere Boba did I mention bipartisan nor did I link the Republican as a change in the winds. All I merely did was point out the bill has a great chance of sucess. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people don't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. Mariane Williamson If our country is worth dying for in time of war let us resolve that it is truly worth living for in time of peace. ~Hamilton Fish If you take advantage of everything America has to offer, there's nothing you can't accomplish. ~Geraldine Ferraro
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BobaKareu		#117	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3302 Oct 14 09 5:08 PM	thebentwin wrote: Nowhere Boba did I mention bipartisan nor did I link the Republican as a change in the winds. All I merely did was point out the bill has a great chance of sucess. Ya know, sometimes I'll quote people to point out what I'm referring to without ever actually commenting on the quote itself. This was one of those times, so cool your keyboardin' fingers.
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Rouge77		#118	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5599 Oct 14 09 8:31 PM	It seems a peculiarly Anglo-Saxon habit of making a coming armageddon out of every attempt at reform through legislative action - and to portray the current situation always as a paradise, whatever the actual circumstances. "If we change things, the end is near!" Even when the actual changes to most people would be from minimal to none at all. Having followed the previous and current attempts at healtcare reform in US it feels terribly similar to very long-running attempts at reform the parlament in UK in 18th and early 19th centuries and the efforts to extend the voting rights first to most males and then to all adults. I guess Americans just didn't went far enough in their rebellion, cutting ties to British style of politics might have also been in order. If it's an Imperial, it deserves to die.
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petersearing		#119	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3060 Oct 18 09 1:06 PM	rev with your report about rising costs i beleive that report was written by the money grabbing health insurers who are of course going to say that any government health system is going to raise costs as they will have to raise costs to keep their profits high. I say end the insurers moey grabbing scheme
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revmacd		#120	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3883 Oct 18 09 3:16 PM	Remove this ad I would agree Peter. It is their job to make as much money for their shareholders as possible though. I don't consider them evil or anything. They are just doing what the shareholders expect of them. If those doing it, didn't do it, they would be replaced by those who would. If you think about it, the insurance companies thus far have actually been rather well behaved considering the stakes. (This has disappointed me greatly as I prefer to see it played out as the blood sport it is.) I mean, certainly they have bought lobbyinst and even politicians and they are all filthy dirty but it could have been a lot louder and there could have been a lot more scare tactics and such employed. I mean, posters of President Obama with a Hitler mustache is really bush league and even kind of cartoonish. I don't know, perhaps they need to learn how to pull off a good conspiracy from the oil companies.
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